Hizeye
5 years ago
Is this game for the devs or the customers?
Just rewatched the Q&A and I have to say it feels like the devs think this game is their private playground and we're paying a monthly fee to simply get admittance.

It's clear as crystal that how the customer base at large feels about class balance and other issues isn't as important as how the devs perceive the game on a completely subjective level.

They aren't only ignoring the playerbase where our enjoyment is concerned (although that should be enough for any entertainment business model) but even when presented with cold mathematics they lift their noses and spin excuses for keeping things how they are or even making them worse.

Blizzard thinks their pimp hand is so strong that they can do anything and we'll still feed them our cash by the shovel full.

My sub expires in February. I wish it wasn't paid out past 7.1 though.

When it ends it ends. For the first time in ten years I'm going to let it lapse and walk away.

P.S. I feel the same way about Overwatch which has as many balance issues as WoW if not more.
Ornyx
Community Manager
5 years ago
Is this game for the devs or the customers?
Game design is most definitely an art, and the artist is the one in control of their own hand.

One of Blizzard's oldest philosophies has been to build worlds and games that we ourselves love, and, only then, inviting players to join us on adventures within. This doesn't mean we don't care or listen, it just means that we do disagree at a philosophical level about some things that players may not like.

Everyone who has worked on Legion has put tons of love and sweat into building this expansion. We are most definitely working on making Legion the best expansion WoW has seen - and I think that will show over the coming months.
Edited by Ornyx 10/18/2016 02:08 AM
Ornyx
Community Manager
5 years ago
Is this game for the devs or the customers?
10/17/2016 07:11 PMPosted by Anubis
10/17/2016 07:07 PMPosted by Ornyx
Game design is most definitely an art, and the artist is the one in control of their own hand.

One of Blizzard's oldest philosophies has been to build worlds and games that we ourselves love, and, only then, inviting players to join us on adventures within. This doesn't mean we don't care or listen, it just means that we do disagree at a philosophical level about some things that players may not like.

Everyone who has worked on Legion has put tons of love and sweat into building this expansion. We are most definitely working on making Legion the best expansion WoW has seen - and I think that will show over the coming months.


I agree, but, you have to realize you're opening the flood gates for: "BUT WE PAY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN!111!1!!!!"

Mob mentality incoming! FLEE, GOAT! FLEE FOR YOUR LIFE! D:

That's why I say we're listening/reacting tho. ;)
Edited by Ornyx 10/18/2016 02:13 AM
Ornyx
Community Manager
5 years ago
Is this game for the devs or the customers?
10/17/2016 07:16 PMPosted by Diamondtíara
10/17/2016 07:07 PMPosted by Ornyx
Game design is most definitely an art, and the artist is the one in control of their own hand.

One of Blizzard's oldest philosophies has been to build worlds and games that we ourselves love, and, only then, inviting players to join us on adventures within. This doesn't mean we don't care or listen, it just means that we do disagree at a philosophical level about some things that players may not like.

Everyone who has worked on Legion has put tons of love and sweat into building this expansion. We are most definitely working on making Legion the best expansion WoW has seen - and I think that will show over the coming months.

This expansion is fantastic. You guys are killing it. My only gripe is having to run WQs on alts every day :P

Not the most alt-friendly, eh? ;)
Ornyx
Community Manager
5 years ago
Is this game for the devs or the customers?
10/17/2016 07:35 PMPosted by Lóst
10/17/2016 07:17 PMPosted by Personified
...

Incoming hate mob for saying Blizzard is allowed to disagree with forum posters.


Disagreement is fine, but not helping struggling specs like Ele, Frost or BrM under the stated reasoning feels a bit weak. 'We want to be viable' does not mean 'we want to be OP'.

If balance was closer I think there would have been much less pushback.

Definitely, and we agree. If a spec is truly struggling we aren't going to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing.

We want the game to be great, we don't have anything to win by making it horrible. :P
Ornyx
Community Manager
5 years ago
Is this game for the devs or the customers?
10/17/2016 08:44 PMPosted by Kiaren
10/17/2016 08:38 PMPosted by Blakebone
...

I think it was pretty obvious that you guys never made a game for players to have fun but for devs to play their way.

Pretty sad.

Your restaurant serve !@#$ food but its ok because the owners like it. Maybe we should leave the owners alone in their kitchen and spend our money where the product is made with customers in mind.

Look, what he is trying to say is, using your analogy, no *good* restaurant in the world will serve food they won't want to eat themselves. Providing of course, they like that type of food. You wouldn't want to eat in a place that did this, trust me.

Listen to her. ^
Watcher
Game Designer
5 years ago
Is this game for the devs or the customers?
10/17/2016 07:26 PMPosted by Lóst
I think the big problem is the balance discussion in the QA came over a bit high handed or even a touch meanspirited.

While it is likely not exactly as it was intended, the whole 'we know yall need buffs but if you become the top spec it will upset the peole who play that spec so no love for you' impression taken from the QA was sort of crappy, especially for people playing Elemental or Frost - who also dedicated a lot of time and AP in the hopes that they would be buffed not to be better than Unholy or Enhance, but on par.

Sorry to hear that it came across that way.

Just to be clear, I was trying to explain why we sometimes may seem conservative or slow with balance changes. Frost mages were used as an example of a spec that we do feel is currently lagging behind in raid and dungeon gameplay, but not by nearly as much as data from public log sites might suggest. It seems less disruptive to buff a spec incrementally, allowing time for the results of each change to play out and repeating if needed, rather than risking overshooting the mark. (And yes, we definitely have failed in this goal at times - post-launch rogue spec balance comes to mind.)

At the heart of balance concerns is the fact that people just want to be able to feel like they have a place in the endgame as their preferred class/spec, and we entirely share that goal. Class balance is an ongoing process, with new variables coming into play all the time, as item level increases, new trinkets, legendaries, and set bonuses enter the mix, players get deeper into their respective artifact trees, theorycraft evolves, etc.

The Q&A didn't delve into specific details because the exact list of changes is and was still evolving. There will be a new 7.1 build on PTR very shortly, and patch notes to follow. That patch contains some improvements for several of the specs that currently are currently underperforming (including both flavors of Frost). Those changes should in general move things in the right direction, but we'll be continuing to watch and adjust further as needed.
Watcher
Game Designer
5 years ago
Is this game for the devs or the customers?
Whoops, didn't realize the thread was capped. Fixed.
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